[SedesGobhani]

The biblical entity called "God" does things by/through Jesus and the Spirit all the time.

Heb 1:
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Can you show me where "God" does something by/through by the father? Can you find me any verse in the bible where "God" and "the father" interact at all?

And I certainly see nothing (I have searched, and have never found it) anywhere that suggests that God speaks "through" the Father, or does any of his works by the Father. There can only be one very simple explanation, as far as I can honestly tell.

Likewise, again, we read of the "Spirit of God", and the "Son of God", but can someone please direct me to any passage that mentions the "Father of God"? Thanks.

This post has been edited by SedesGobhani: 28 January 2010 - 11:53 PM

[gonewai josua]

SedesGobhani, on 29 January 2010 - 07:43 PM, said:

The biblical entity called "God" does things by/through Jesus and the Spirit all the time.

Heb 1:
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Can you show me where "God" does something by/through by the father? Can you find me any verse in the bible where "God" and "the father" interact at all?

And I certainly see nothing (I have searched, and have never found it) anywhere that suggests that God speaks "through" the Father, or does any of his works by the Father. There can only be one very simple explanation, as far as I can honestly tell.

Likewise, again, we read of the "Spirit of God", and the "Son of God", but can someone please direct me to any passage that mentions the "Father of God"? Thanks.

i don't have all the answers but ask in the simplest form and i wanna will try to answer you, honestly.

[SedesGobhani]

gonewai josua, on 29 January 2010 - 02:25 AM, said:

SedesGobhani, on 29 January 2010 - 07:43 PM, said:

The biblical entity called "God" does things by/through Jesus and the Spirit all the time.

Heb 1:
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Can you show me where "God" does something by/through by the father? Can you find me any verse in the bible where "God" and "the father" interact at all?

And I certainly see nothing (I have searched, and have never found it) anywhere that suggests that God speaks "through" the Father, or does any of his works by the Father. There can only be one very simple explanation, as far as I can honestly tell.

Likewise, again, we read of the "Spirit of God", and the "Son of God", but can someone please direct me to any passage that mentions the "Father of God"? Thanks.

i don't have all the answers but ask in the simplest form and i wanna will try to answer you, honestly.

Hi GJ;

The question is for trinitarians, and I'm not so much seeking an answer, as I am hoping to provoke reflection and encourage all self thinkers to consider. For if God is a substance, or essence, as the 4th century Egyptian Christians formulated, and not a person unto Himself, and if there are co-equal persons called God the Father, God the Son and God the HS, as per the popular doctrine of the world's churches today, then I would suspect that these three persons would in fact be God, and not interact with Him. And unfortunately for the doctrine of the Trinity, the scriptures show cases of God interacting with or acting through the Son and through the HS, but never does God interact with the Father, or act through Him.

So far I have asked this of many trinitarians in the past, and none have been able to provide any satisfactory explanation for this fact, and yet I've given many ample time and opportunity to discuss it with their pastors, ministers, reverends, seminary professors, bishops, popes, &c., &c., &c... In fact some have said that when they started asking too many questions like this of their minister, they were told that maybe they didn't belong to this church, after all, rather than being given a scriptural answer. I should hope that any trinitarian being honest to God, and less concerned with his affiliations in the world, would seriously question why this is the case, that God interacts with the Son and the HS, but not with the Father.

"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." (1Cor 8:6).


God bless,
SG

This post has been edited by SedesGobhani: 29 January 2010 - 11:16 PM

[Timotheos]

Excellent question!

[SedesGobhani]

Timotheos, on 30 January 2010 - 07:37 AM, said:

Excellent question!

Thanks. One for which I do not expect to get an answer, but one which may very well affect salvation.

[gonewai josua]

SedesGobhani, on 29 January 2010 - 07:43 PM, said:

The biblical entity called "God" does things by/through Jesus and the Spirit all the time.

Heb 1:
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Can you show me where "God" does something by/through by the father? Can you find me any verse in the bible where "God" and "the father" interact at all?

And I certainly see nothing (I have searched, and have never found it) anywhere that suggests that God speaks "through" the Father, or does any of his works by the Father. There can only be one very simple explanation, as far as I can honestly tell.

Likewise, again, we read of the "Spirit of God", and the "Son of God", but can someone please direct me to any passage that mentions the "Father of God"? Thanks.

what i see in this post is you trying to brush away the truth that is stuck in your heart and head that questions you alot. and that truth is, that the FATHER, the SON and the SPIRIT are one. my reason for saying this is because you have questions in your head to which you've been asking yourself and you've asked it again in your post above but you've tried to prove yourself that you are right by anwering your own question which you've struggled with for so many years as far as the many people you've asked. these many people you've asked shows me that you've been struggling alot to find the right answer to your questions and until today the question still hangs around in your head becausse it seems that you still haven't found the answer to. let me encourage you. questions like that can only be answered if go out off your denomination and it's protocols/statement of faith and make yourself know nothing then search for the answer. you can also talk to GOD about it and yes, JESUS lives, and HE is very much seeking to save those that are lost. but, you will take this as a negative advise and say to yourself, 'i don't need this'. well, we are what we believe. i remember looking at a photo of a girl who was born in india in one of the newspapers here in fiji. this girl was born with 8 limbs and the indians began to worship her as lakshmi reincarnated but this reminded of the scripture that GOD said that HE will allow people to be born according to the things they worship. so, i say to myself,'we are what we believe'.

to not be stubborn and put religious things aside and make your search. GOD loves those who seeks after the things of the KINGDOM of GOD and HIS righteousness.

so, good luck and be blessed. amen.

[Matt Smith]

gonewai josua, on 31 January 2010 - 10:30 PM, said:

SedesGobhani, on 29 January 2010 - 07:43 PM, said:

The biblical entity called "God" does things by/through Jesus and the Spirit all the time.

Heb 1:
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Can you show me where "God" does something by/through by the father? Can you find me any verse in the bible where "God" and "the father" interact at all?

And I certainly see nothing (I have searched, and have never found it) anywhere that suggests that God speaks "through" the Father, or does any of his works by the Father. There can only be one very simple explanation, as far as I can honestly tell.

Likewise, again, we read of the "Spirit of God", and the "Son of God", but can someone please direct me to any passage that mentions the "Father of God"? Thanks.

what i see in this post is you trying to brush away the truth that is stuck in your heart and head that questions you alot. and that truth is, that the FATHER, the SON and the SPIRIT are one.

GJ, there's no scripture that says that.

Quote

my reason for saying this is because you have questions in your head to which you've been asking yourself and you've asked it again in your post above but you've tried to prove yourself that you are right by anwering your own question which you've struggled with for so many years as far as the many people you've asked. these many people you've asked shows me that you've been struggling alot to find the right answer to your questions and until today the question still hangs around in your head becausse it seems that you still haven't found the answer to. let me encourage you. questions like that can only be answered if go out off your denomination and it's protocols/statement of faith and make yourself know nothing then search for the answer.

Don't you mean that the trinity can only be supported if you leave the Bible out of it...?

Quote

you can also talk to GOD about it and yes, JESUS lives, and HE is very much seeking to save those that are lost. but, you will take this as a negative advise and say to yourself, 'i don't need this'. well, we are what we believe. i remember looking at a photo of a girl who was born in india in one of the newspapers here in fiji. this girl was born with 8 limbs and the indians began to worship her as lakshmi reincarnated but this reminded of the scripture that GOD said that HE will allow people to be born according to the things they worship. so, i say to myself,'we are what we believe'.

GJ, there's no scripture that says that.

Quote

to not be stubborn and put religious things aside and make your search. GOD loves those who seeks after the things of the KINGDOM of GOD and HIS righteousness.

so, good luck and be blessed. amen.

Do you mean "open your Bible and approach it without preconceived notions of what is right and wrong"? If so, then I agree.

[gonewai josua]

matt. you are scared. the reason i say that you are scared is because you strongly go against this trinitarian belief. i also don't believe in the trinitarian sect. i believe in the same GOD who was the SON and now is the SPIRIT.

and you, matt smith, are scared of this belief and like any christian choose to pick from the scripture notions that supports your belief and i respect that.

probably, like my dad, well, of course not, but, you preach in the church? don't you?

if you do then you probably be teaching that the trinitarian belief is false and not biblical. yes, you are right. but, JESUS and GOD are one as JESUS said in the scripture and JESUS said to the disciples that HE will be with them and us even unto the end of the world but HE has gone up and HE cannot and does not lie so HE should be here still. the question is: is HE still here? yes. where? in the HOLY SPIRIT. oh, sorry matt, you don't even believe in the HOLY SPIRIT'S now presence either.

you rely on the scripture and the scripture talks about JESUS and JESUS is in the HOLY SPIRIT and is with us even unto the end of the world. but, you don't believe in this one either. you say it is unscriptural.

i am confused matt. i like this forum. i like you. and i will continue to do so until who knows when.

[SedesGobhani]

gonewai josua, on 31 January 2010 - 09:30 PM, said:

SedesGobhani, on 29 January 2010 - 07:43 PM, said:

The biblical entity called "God" does things by/through Jesus and the Spirit all the time.

Heb 1:
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Can you show me where "God" does something by/through by the father? Can you find me any verse in the bible where "God" and "the father" interact at all?

And I certainly see nothing (I have searched, and have never found it) anywhere that suggests that God speaks "through" the Father, or does any of his works by the Father. There can only be one very simple explanation, as far as I can honestly tell.

Likewise, again, we read of the "Spirit of God", and the "Son of God", but can someone please direct me to any passage that mentions the "Father of God"? Thanks.

what i see in this post is you trying to brush away the truth that is stuck in your heart and head that questions you alot. and that truth is, that the FATHER, the SON and the SPIRIT are one. my reason for saying this is because you have questions in your head to which you've been asking yourself and you've asked it again in your post above but you've tried to prove yourself that you are right by anwering your own question which you've struggled with for so many years as far as the many people you've asked. these many people you've asked shows me that you've been struggling alot to find the right answer to your questions and until today the question still hangs around in your head becausse it seems that you still haven't found the answer to. let me encourage you. questions like that can only be answered if go out off your denomination and it's protocols/statement of faith and make yourself know nothing then search for the answer. you can also talk to GOD about it and yes, JESUS lives, and HE is very much seeking to save those that are lost. but, you will take this as a negative advise and say to yourself, 'i don't need this'. well, we are what we believe. i remember looking at a photo of a girl who was born in india in one of the newspapers here in fiji. this girl was born with 8 limbs and the indians began to worship her as lakshmi reincarnated but this reminded of the scripture that GOD said that HE will allow people to be born according to the things they worship. so, i say to myself,'we are what we believe'.

to not be stubborn and put religious things aside and make your search. GOD loves those who seeks after the things of the KINGDOM of GOD and HIS righteousness.

so, good luck and be blessed. amen.

Very well put, at least the part about having a question in my head. I mean, I hate to think that so many people could be so wrong about such an important topic. So I ask questions. If the diety of Christ is true, then what else must be true? Or if the trinity is true, then also how must it be for this other side effect? We find that the bible has certain literary styles which we are unaccustomed to in our culture. I think that also our parents and teachers early on have a lot of influence on us, but it is hard for them to prepare us fully for the figures of speech and deeper meanings found in God's word. But if we are what we believe, and if that can never change, but is what it is, then that implies a lot. So I hope you know I am not "locked in". However I know what I tentatively believe, and it isn't the trinity. In fact of course we all have little shades where we believe differently. Not all Christadelphians believe EVERYTHING the same, although it is (or should be!) our goal through bible classes, self studies, etc. So but if you are trying to say I can never change I would have to inform you that with some people that is true, but hopefully not with me. But of course the reason I asked the OP question is to get people to think, not give an answer. The reason is not because if they give an answer that I will ignore it, but rather because I am absolutely confident that the verse showing God interacting with the Father in any way is not to be found in scripture, because the father alone is the Most High God. If someone proves me wrong I will be surprised, examine the scripture to see if it is incorrectly translated or a plant, try to harmonize it with other scripture, and if need be, change my religion.

Peace and blessings,
SG

[Matt Smith]

gonewai josua, on 02 February 2010 - 03:31 AM, said:

matt. you are scared. the reason i say that you are scared is because you strongly go against this trinitarian belief. i also don't believe in the trinitarian sect. i believe in the same GOD who was the SON and now is the SPIRIT.

and you, matt smith, are scared of this belief and like any christian choose to pick from the scripture notions that supports your belief and i respect that.

Scared? No. False doctrines need to be preached against.

Quote

probably, like my dad, well, of course not, but, you preach in the church? don't you?

Yes

Quote

if you do then you probably be teaching that the trinitarian belief is false and not biblical. yes, you are right.

Quite correct.

Quote

but, JESUS and GOD are one

That is also a false doctrine built on the misunderstanding of one verse.

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JESUS said to the disciples that HE will be with them and us even unto the end of the world

Age, not world.

Quote

but HE has gone up and HE cannot and does not lie so HE should be here still.

He sent the Comforter to the apostles, which helped them (among other things) compile the completed Bible which we have in our hands.

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the question is: is HE still here? yes.

No. We can read of him in the Scriptures but he is not currently here. He will be though.

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where? in the HOLY SPIRIT.

The holy spirit was only given for a specific length of time (the age) until the Scriptures were completed. Since the holy men of God were moved by the holy spirit to write the scriptures, you could say that the Bible is the "spirit word", but it is from the Bible alone we receive the information we need for doctrine and daily living.

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oh, sorry matt, you don't even believe in the HOLY SPIRIT'S now presence either.

Yes, and for good reason explained in detail here, here, here, here, here and here.

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you rely on the scripture

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

2Tim 3:15-17 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

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and the scripture talks about JESUS

Yes they talk about Jesus.

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JESUS is in the HOLY SPIRIT and is with us even unto the end of the world.

The Bible says nothing about Jesus being the holy spirit.

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but, you don't believe in this one either. you say it is unscriptural.

Yes

Quote

i am confused matt. i like this forum. i like you. and i will continue to do so until who knows when.

Go back to the Bible and read it and ask "what is this saying" rather than "Ah, this proves my belief!". It's much less confusing and Scripture comes together nicely and you won't have to explain away the countless passages that contradict your current theological position.